Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Stephanie Ragar. Stephanie shares how fighting her anxiety has changed her life.
Welcome to Life After Losing Mom With Kat Bonner. In this episode, we’re joined by Stephanie Ragar. Stephanie shares how fighting her anxiety has changed her life.
What To Listen For
Stephanie is not alone in grieving the loss of her mom, but openness and sharing of her story helps give other women going through the same thing comfort and hope. Stephanie opens up about the hard reality of processing grief while dealing with anxiety, getting help, and the importance of sharing your story as a method of processing.
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Voiceover: 00:00 In 2013 Kat Bonner lost her mom in a tragic car accident. She figured out how to manage her grief and is helping other women do the same. On this podcast, you'll hear from other women who have lost their moms and discover the exact coping strategies you need to get through the day and be in the best place you've ever been. Don't miss another episode. Subscribe today. More information can be found at KatBonner.Com/Podcast and if you'd like to join a group of likeminded women had to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Lastly, if you're looking for help managing your grief book a complimentary connection call KatBonner.com.
Kat: 00:48 So before we get started with the episode, I just want to share something with you. I'm sure you've heard multiple times that grief is an individual process. Well, the people you heard this from aren't wrong because it very much so is you're probably wondering how can someone help me when they grieve differently than I do? That's why I'm so passionate about one on one coaching that is totally customized to you and your pain points. I let you guide me two ways. I can help you. I can only take on three clients at a time. So the spots are limited. I'd love for you to tell me how I can help you in your grief journey.
Kat: 01:37 Alrighty. Well, welcome to the show, Stephanie. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for the invite. Of course. Of course. So I just like to start off each episode with each person sharing whatever they want about the loss of their mom.
Stephanie: 01:54 All right. So the loss of my mom started in 2014. We started noticing that my mom was a little bit different, just something wasn't quite right. My Dad knew something was seriously wrong. So he ended up taking her to the doctor and they had her get a couple of different scans, a chest scan and a Bahrain MRI. And immediately they could tell that something was wrong. Basically the radiologists knew right away that it was, it was probably lung cancer that had spread to her brain. So this was in 2014, like I said. And so within three days of that happening, we took her to the Er. The next morning we took her to the Iowa City hospital and three days later she had emergency brain surgery to remove a tumor from her brain that they said would have like would have taken her life within 10 days if we didn't get it out.
Stephanie: 02:51 So that was in November of 2014. And she did pretty darn well with them. Some maintenance, Chemo and radio re radiation to her brain just to keep that at bay. And then in August of 2015, she started slowly deteriorating with the cancer. And that is basically, I mean, how, how the story ends is you know, she just started failing and you know, it's just, I'm an only child, so it's my dad and myself and my husband. Luckily we have an amazing support group and you know, you never know how the end is going to play out. And I am an anxiety filled person to start with, but I will never forget like the day that I found out that she had stage four lung cancer in my head, I'm thinking, okay, so how does this end? Does it, does it end in a hospital?
Stephanie: 03:56 Is it ended? My Mom and dad's house, those are like the things that I worry about when I don't even have, I mean it's so far down the road, but those are the things that I worry about. And you know, when the time came, I always thought that I just wanted it to be myself and my dad and my husband. And when all of a sudden done, you know, mom, you know, she slipped away with, Oh gosh, probably 25 people and my mom and dad's house. So it ended up being perfect. I don't, you know, perfect as it could be. I mean, I just always thought, like I said, that it would just be my dad and my husband and I, but I would've went into to have wanted it any other way. I think that would've been really tough to, you know, have a parent die in the middle of the night and you have to go through that on your own. So that's basically, I mean without getting into the nitty gritty of it, I mean, lung cancer basically took my mom and well November to August, so I think we said we had eight, nine months with her after the diagnosis.
Kat: 05:03 Wow, that's crazy. First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss. I know that like, I literally feel like I said this in every episode, but especially, I'm not saying that some stories are sadder than the others because they're all sad, but like, screw cancer, first of all, just sickness in general, like cancer, addiction, whatever. But it's, it seems like to me, like, you know, she got, I mean, one day, you know, she was fine and then the next day like they were like, oh, just kidding. If we don't get this out, you know, your mom has 10 days live. So I guess just, I wouldn't say walk me through those thoughts because who knows what thoughts are really going through your head then. But yeah, I guess, did she, you know, live longer than expected? Like how did I guess that go, cause you said you're an only child you know, like did y'all live in the same town? Just tell me.
Stephanie: 06:08 Yeah, sure. She lived about 45 minutes north of me. And we saw them quite often. Like I said, I'm an only child for, they've always been very, my mom and dad were always very influential in my life. And so my dad and I are a good team, so it was my husband with me and I got a mother-in-law that is an amazing nurse. So, you know, I'm a realist. I am just one of those from the get go. When I heard stage four cancer, I mean, I'm like a researcher. I'm going to go, I'm going to look and I see how long may say you normally have, and I'm not a dummy to the fact that yeah, those statistics Chan, you know, it's different for each person, but there's statistic for a reason too. And the doctors principally kind of have an idea of how long this is gonna take on average for the cancer to take somebody.
Stephanie: 07:03 So, I mean, from day one, I'm trying to be positive with her and she's being positive too. I just knew that we probably had less than a year with her, but we're going to be positive cause she wanted me to stay positive. And she never ever had the poor me. Why me? Attitude about it. It was just this is God's will, this is what it is, and we're just gonna fight it the best we can. So I tried to tried to do that. You know, you, you tried to bring up those things, you know, it's almost kind of, I felt like I took the mother role. Like I took her role on, I became the mother a little bit. So you're thinking like, okay, so when it comes down to it, when this starts going south, I mean, does she want to be buried? Does she want to be cremated? How do you ask those questions? You just don't even know where to begin. And that's Kinda like the process that I took with, and I'm trying to ask these types of questions, but I'm trying to be positive at the same time trying not to dwell on it. Even now it's like all you can think about for that amount of time. So that's basically kinda how it played out.
Kat: 08:15 Yeah. I'm really glad that you mentioned the whole like positivity and realist thing because the world needs more realisticness. Is that a word? Real realistic city. I don't even know what the word is, but the world needs like more of that. And people were like, oh, it's being a Debbie downer. And I'm like, oh no, it's being a realist. That's the word. So like you can be positive in the moment. Like you can be positive and say like, hey, we don't know how much longer we're going to live. Like, we're going to have you here, but you know, we're going to spend each day like to the fullest, like we're going to have a positive day, like find something good in each day, that kind of thing. So you mentioned before, you know that you were like already an anxious person. When I guess, did you realize that like, actually I take that back, I'm curious, obviously mental health is important and that's just a whole other thing on top of grief. But when would you say like your anxiety was like more uncontrollable? I'm trying to be better with like my words, like, you know, when like after she passed, like in the months leading up to her passing.
Stephanie: 09:38 I think that my personality is very much, I take a leadership role in about every aspect of my life and I had some really good friends. If you've never checked out the website, trust your journey or the Facebook group, trust your journey, it's got like a couple million followers. And I found them when I was a retail buyer in my current life. And I actually met the owner of the company that started it. She's a cancer survivor and she actually you know, like, I mean, the week that she was starting to go down hill, I was talking to my friend Beth and she just gave me really good hesitant, but once again, realistic expectations of what was going to basically play out. And I feel like when everybody's Kinda relying on you to keep it together I do. I mean, that's where I think my biggest downfall with the entire grief process is.
Stephanie: 10:45 In a nutshell I'm going to keep it together. I'm always going to be the one that's like in control of this situation. And I think that's what happened. It was like, you know, I'm not even crying hardly when all of this is going down. And he got everybody around you, like I said, 25 30 people that are crying around you. And it's like, I can't even cry when I think you're in shock too. You're just trying to make the passing as peaceful and gosh, like less hectic for everyone there as possible. I felt like I was basically comforting others. So that's how my grief process started was I comforted others. And then I didn't feel that anxious at that time because I just felt like this is what I have to do. I have to be in control, I have to help my dad, then we have to go, you know, plan, penal arrangements, et cetera.
Stephanie: 11:47 It wasn't until, Gosh probably like a month after she passed that I started noticing my anxiety getting really somewhat out of like out of hand. It would be my husband's gone on some friends for the night to go eat dinner and I know he's coming home, but I am like about to have an anxiety attack because I don't know when he's coming home exactly. That it was like a completely controllable situation. Like he's in control, but I'm not there to control the situation. So that's where my anxiety got completely out of hand and he's like, Steph, you know, I'm OK. Like, it's going to be fine, like just calm down, those types of things. And I was doing it with my dad too. I couldn't get Ahold of my dad. He was like, Steph, I'm like, I'm okay. You just gotta settle down. It's okay. And I think what I've learned is, you know, I'm not in control of those situations. I'm not physically there with them and it's the two main people in my life that if I can't get ahold of them or they're not there with me, I have this fear that something terrible is gonna happen to them too. So that's when I really notice the anxiety rearing its head about a month afterwards. And stop me if you have any questions in here too.
Kat: 13:11 Okay. No, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because I think a lot of the struggles, even if we know our mom is going to die, you know, not to sound like and sensitive. But like even if you know, like the prognosis or the outcome, nothing really ever hits you. I feel like until after she has to cease because that's just kind of how death and grief work. Yeah. So is, and I wonder, you know, it seemed pretty recent and not recent, I guess soon after your mom passed that you noticed this anxiety and I'm trying to like remember, was it more along the lines of you, obviously death is a sense of abandonment and a sense of like, hey, this person kind of like left you in this physical earth type of thing. You know, were you worried or anxious about, you know, your dad and I don't know if her husband, I don't know if you're married at the time, but like everybody else in your life, like physically dying too. I mean, I understand, you know, mental illness, but yeah.
Stephanie: 14:29 Yes, absolutely. If I wasn't with them, it was like this fear that, oh my gosh, you're away on a business trip and it's 10 o'clock and I haven't heard from you even though I know you're just at dinner and I want to talk to you right now, but you're not available to talk to me because you're with people at dinner. But I'm about to have a panic attack because I don't know if you're okay or not. You know that that's what kind of started that was when I had my very first panic attack ever was when I just couldn't get ahold of my husband or my dad and they're in completely fine situations. It's just I wasn't there. And so it's like, okay, I I knew that it was starting, like I never wanted to be on any type of medicine with it. Not that there's anything against it, I just work out my own issues because I felt like they probably were issues I was trying to deal with because I never really, I never really grieved the loss of my mom.
Stephanie: 15:30 I think it's different too. Like I don't know. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean it guys and girls, they grieve differently. And with me being an only child, and then my main people that I talk to on a daily basis are males. You know, they're there to talk to me, but it's not the same as if you're talking to sometimes a woman who's feeling the same hormonal shifts that you are or those types of things. So I was lacking that woman, even though my mother and I could talk to my mother in law and my friends all the time. It's not the same as talking to your mom. And so I felt like I never truly really grieved my mom just because it was like, once again, like, okay, so you've taken a couple of days off, now you have to get back to work. Now you have to do this, now you have to do that. But it was always in my head, oh, I don't want to think about this and I don't want to cry tonight about it because I'll wake up with a terrible headache every time I cry like that. You know, those types of things. I just kept pushing off the grief process.
Kat: 16:35 No, that's so funny. First of all, you're so right. Men and women grieve very differently. And I say, this is not saying all men are the same, but this is why I say I can't help men because I don't know what goes on in their brains. I'm like, women have the same infrastructure or however you want to describe it. So you're not wrong about that. And it's interesting. Oh my God, I will repeat myself all the time. But that you say, you know, you had like all like the people in your life that you would talk to almost like a, I guess a grief representation had in your husband. And I feel like it almost not as a trigger for your anxiety. And it's not that, you know, they don't mean well, but it's like, okay, is this really helping my anxiety or in my grief in general if like, you know, but then it's like, what other choice do you have? So, right. I don't know, maybe I'm just like babbling. But how did you, like, were your friends more of a support system regarding your anxiety from
Stephanie: 17:50 Your grief or tell me more about like that. I never really brought it up with them and to be honest, I mean, because if you look at me like on the outside I'm just very like, okay, I've got this. Like, okay, I just take care of situations or I'm just like the one that's doing okay. And so I never really brought it up because in my opinion, it's kind of silly too. I mean, my dad's like having dinner with his family and I'm freaking out. Like, how do I tell my dad, don't go out to eat with your family because I'm trying to call you, you know, like it's completely legitimate events that they were doing or, or living their life that it was me. I mean, it was truly me with my anxiety that was causing me to kind of freak out. So it was about like I just didn't, I finally opened up to my husband.
Stephanie: 18:45 Well, he kind of, I mean he always knew that I had the anxiety of just him being gone and whatnot. And then finally it was about a year after she passed, like 11 months in, I finally said to him, I said, hey, I feel like I need some help here. I need to try to talk to somebody. I just, every time I think of my mom, I'm not thinking of anything good. All I'm doing is thinking of her laying on her death bed and it was terrible images that I would have of the last 24 hours of her passing that I'm like, this is just not normal. I should be able to think about her in a happy light, not in this terrible dying situation. And so I told him, I'm like, it's just awful. I mean, anytime I think about her, that's all I see. And he was like, okay, let's, let's do what we need to.
Stephanie: 19:37 And it was just amazing. I think it's a god thing. I mean, literally he works with doctors and a doctor came up to him the very next day and said, hey, how's your wife doing? And he said, well, actually it's funny that you asked that. She's, she said she wants me to reach out to some of the doctors and find out who's the best therapist in town that she go to. And it was like, how cool is that that that just played out like that, that then somebody was able to recommend somebody who specializes in grief and anxiety and stressful situations like that. So that's Kinda how that played out as far as finding somebody to talk to. However, like I said, it did not hit me that I really needed to see somebody until almost a year had passed. Yeah. It's really, I think, you know, first of all, grief is,
Kat: 20:35 You know, society is like, oh my God, grief. And then society doesn't take them at the health seriously. And then you combine the two and people are literally like,
Stephanie: 20:44 Okay,
Kat: 20:44 The fuck. And I'm like, no, I should be saying that about you. Right, right. It just enrages me. I could, I'm trying to contain myself completely. I can go on and on and on and on. But it's, and that's when it's like, okay, you know, I have this grief and then I have this mental health, you know, struggle on top of it. So it's really like you cannot grieve until you get your mental health under control and regardless if you know the mental health issues I guess manifested from the grief or if you had them before, like it really just goes to show and it's like you have to get help with your mental health first. Like regardless of, you know, yeah. Like, yeah, you know, you might not be a fan of medicine. You might not be a fan of therapy. It might not be a fan of whatever.
Kat: 21:39 But like I don't, I don't personally think that you can, well, I take that back. I feel like you can help yourself to a certain extent when it comes to mental health. Yup. Okay. I was like, maybe I'm just crazy, but I'm curious. So if you don't mind me asking where you own any like anti-anxiety medicine or anything like that? No, nothing. That's really awesome. And sometimes it's, and I don't know, you know, it all depends on the person, all depends on the age and like maybe you know what is available. But some people are really ashamed I guess of Oh my God. Like I had to get on this medicine to get my life together and I'm no mental health professional. So what is like, and my thoughts on that are just, you know, I mean, hell, I didn't want to get on medicine, but it was either that or I drank myself to death like my mom did. So what other choice did I have? So I guess if somebody came to you and they're like, Hey, I'm really struggling with anxiety and my doctor is recommending, you know, I get on medicine, I don't want to like, would you have any like, advice? Like walk me through, I guess hypothetically, like, you know, like what would you say to them?
Stephanie: 22:53 Oh my gosh. I would tell them absolutely. They needed to do what the doctor recommended. I mean, my guy asked me on day one if I wanted any type of prescription. And I said, well, first of all, I'd like to try to talk this out with you first to see if that will do me any good before I just jumped to, you know, first first session, prescribing me something. I mean, I really need to talk this out because I haven't done it yet. And then if I get halfway through this and I feel like I'm still struggling, I mean, don't get me wrong, there are times like, even even nowadays where I'm like, oh gosh, I just kind of wish I had like some sort of a anti-anxiety medicine to get me through this. However the therapy that I went through really helped me with that and it's like I use those coping mechanisms now in my day to day life.
Stephanie: 23:54 I have actually, it's kind of a side note, but I told you that I started with with a skincare and makeup line and I do a lot of live videos about skincare and makeup. And one night it was mental health day that I just decided I have got to do something with my voice here because I get people to watch my videos. So I need to tell them about my story and I need to tell them that I've struggled with mental health in the past here because it needs to be talked about. And it was the most humbling experience probably ever because I mean I had people texting me before I was even done with my video. I had messages in my Facebook messenger of people telling me some very, very personal stories about them and their mental health. I had people like weeks later telling me how much they appreciated me opening up about my mental health and the, the loss of my mom.
Stephanie: 24:55 And it was just so like just, it was just so awesome that people cared that much and I helped people along the way. And then it's like fast forward. That was in September and I just did another one on mental health last month because it was mental health month and I kind of missed it in April. So I think I did it in May, maybe, and I kind of talked in that session as well about the coping mechanisms that I've had to go through in the last year that I've gotten through my therapy sessions. And it's just like more of an encouragement to people that know that they're struggling, that maybe they need to go do something, go reach out, go, you know, see if your insurance pays for it. If not, you know, like, think about how we can get you the help that you need. And so so long story short, I'm going back to the medicine. I mean, that's just something where like I said, I'm just kind of bullheaded and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna like work this out on my own. And with my therapy, he did this. He said I'd be a great candidate for e. M d. R have you ever heard of that?
Kat: 26:13 Ah, I have not. It might be similar to cognitive behavioral therapy. Maybe not.
Stephanie: 26:18 Yup. It's, it's called eye movement desensitization reprocessing. Okay. So like processing your thoughts basically. So it's basically I'm taking your either two fingers in front of your face or taking a light bar and having the light bar, like, you know, basically go in front of your eyes about, I don't know, probably three feet in front of your face or taking, he took his two fingers and two fingers right in front of my eyeballs and basically went from one side of my face to the other. And your eyes follow his finger. And that's when I had to, that's the eye movement part of this. And then the desensitizing is when I had to recreate those thoughts in my head of my mom laying in the bed before she died. And that's when I'll never forget it. Never forget it. He's doing this and I ha and I'm remembering things that I locked away that I didn't even know happened.
Stephanie: 27:26 I mean, I remember people like bringing people sandwiches, like, I mean, just these details that I just couldn't even remember if I would have thought about it before. And I just remember him doing this and my eyes just welled up with tears and then they just like flowed like my, my tears just flowed during this during this session and he just, I just remember him saying, God, that's what you need to do. And it's like any, you just keep doing it and then you have these thoughts that keep coming across your mind. Like every single time you would swipe his fingers, they call it like the train car effect. Like when you're on a train car and you just see a different image every time you're going past something that I was seeing a different image and the reprocessing of your brain basically after the death scene, it was like images of my mom telling me how I'm going to be okay, like how you're going to get through this.
Stephanie: 28:26 And so it was like, I'm not even kidding. It is. The coolest thing that has ever happened to me was after that session and a couple more, probably two sessions, just about my mom's death, I don't have those terrible images of my mom and my head anymore. It's like amazing how it reprocessed my brain to think of good things versus terrible things. And I mean to me that's like a life changer because I'm able to like move on and help other people versus having such negative, terrible thoughts in my head. And so he also did it with my anxiety too. It would bring up some anxiety filled situations of like being in big crowds or different things that sometimes I never thought or being in a car, I never had anxiety about being in a car and talk to my mom died and then it was like, oh if I'm not the one driving I'm freaking out cause I think you're going too fast or you're turning too fast or something like that. That he would work through those situations with me with this EMDR process and it really, really helped me. And so now I'm able to even what a year and a half later. I haven't been in therapy for a year and a half, but I can still go back to some of those coping and helped me get through situations that I didn't think that I'd be able to before. So it's totally a cool experience. It's probably kind of like what you were talking about with your cognitive therapy, but it was like a life changer. Game Changer. Life Changer, that's for sure.
Kat: 29:59 I love hearing stuff like that. Yeah, CBT helped. I don't know why I stopped going probably because you know, society and mental health and it just got expensive and that sort of thing and I was like, I'm, I'm 21 don't know where you think that's just going to happen. But yeah, it's what I don't, it's crazy when you find those little things and you realize it's like I didn't think this way until I lost my mom. Like you were saying like I was never even ever anxious in the car and it's like what is this? That's why I think like it's so hard to like get ahold of your grief sometimes and it's so hard to understand it because you're like, literally, I've never, like, I haven't never been like this. Like what is this? And people don't realize that like kids, like it comes from your grief. And I'm sorry that I'm like a literally laughing. I don't even know why because it's not funny. But no, it's true. Amazes me that
Stephanie: 31:07 Every relationship that you have in your life
Kat: 31:10 Even, I mean hell, even your relationship with yourself. And I think that goes like, I mean you have to take care of yourself first. And I mean, like I said, that's a whole other, you know, ordeal. But, and then you find that, you know, that one catalyst that you know, the EMDR, is that what it's called? EMDR yet the EMDR and you're like, oh my God, like this is like how I healed. And sometimes you know, it's intentional and like sometimes it's unintentional. But is that how you, I guess you, like, is that how you coped I guess with your anxiety or is that just more of how you got help with or no,
Stephanie: 31:52 Definitely how both. It definitely taught me like you said, I mean it changes the way you think about yourself too. I mean, there's been times now I've been at two different visitations where like I've had to tell myself like, keep it together, keep it together. Cause I feel like I'm gonna Freak out. Like as I'm trying to walk through visitation line, like it brings back, it triggers some things in me that it's like keep it together. And I just, I feel stronger about myself ever since I've gone to the therapy, I realized that like, I can do this, you can push yourself through this, that I didn't ever have that before. So one, it taught me how to, and then it also taught me that coping mechanisms to try to work through those situations. I Dunno, it's just amazing. Like it changed my life for sure.
Stephanie: 32:45 But I will say too that like I have, we just had a a really good friend die from breast cancer and she was only 37 years old. And I told my husband on the way up to see her, I'm like, I don't know if I can go in the room. I don't know if I can go in there because it took me a year of therapy to try to get those terrible deathly, you know, just, you know, I mean everything about the death process to get that out of my mind with my mom, how do I go in there and do this again? And he's like, that is 100% up to you, hun. You're going to have to decide if you want to. You don't, you don't. If you want to, you want to, that's gonna be up to you. And it was like I walked in and there was no decision.
Stephanie: 33:26 It was just like everybody hugged me and then they're like, go upstairs and see her. And it was like, okay, my body just took over. And I think that's what your body does in the grief process is it just takes over and it push you through I think is a spiritual thing or a godly thing that helps too. And it's like you've just get through it. But I have noticed since that has happened with our friend that I have been triggered more with my anxiety for sure. Like, I mean I've contemplated going back to therapy just as like a little refresher because it's such a traumatic event to lose. Like, I mean your mom, but then a good friend at such a young age too. That I've noticed that I have been triggered a little bit more lately. This happened in February and I can say probably March and April for sure. I was triggered more just with some anxiety since her passing. I think it might happen the rest of my life,
Kat: 34:19 But yeah, triggers don't go away, unfortunately.
Stephanie: 34:23 No, it's going to probably happen. I mean, hopefully it's less and less, but it's still going to happen.
Kat: 34:29 Yeah. And that that's important to know about grief is like I said, I mean, you know, the triggers don't go away and you will be grieving for the rest of your life. But the negative reactions and the overwhelming thoughts and emotions that come from those triggers become like few and far between. So it just all, and there's going to be some things that like no matter what you're emotional, it's, and I love how you said that, like your body takes over and you just get through it. You absolutely do. Like some days it's a hell of a lot harder than others and some years and you know, you can go years and years and years and I mean things are only as hard as you make them. That's, I'm a firm believer in that. Right. So some, yeah, but I mean you definitely, your body has a way in your mind especially it has a way of telling you like an intuition. Like, and at the end of the day you can do this and sometimes I wonder, this is kind of a random side note. I obviously despise funerals. I'm sure you probably do too. I'm sure everybody listening probably does, but sometimes I too, like do you get emotional at weddings? Because I get really emotional wedding. It's, and maybe I'm just crazy.
Kat: 35:45 I don't know if you've been to one since your mom passed. Maybe it's also because I'm 24. But I was like, I cannot go to a wedding without Christ since I've lost my mom and I feel like a crazy person
Stephanie: 35:56 Now. I don't think you're crazy whatsoever. I've noticed that about liberal things too, that like little things about like like I don't have kids yet. And when somebody is talking about like grandparents and their babies and like, not like, that makes me sad. So, no, I totally get it. I mean, it's just like very situational things to you because you're probably thinking you're so like, my mom won't be at my wedding.
Kat: 36:23 Yeah. And I think to everybody at weddings, it's just, those are just emotional things in general and come like, it's, and it's also really weird to tell me if you're like this, but I'm sorry. I'm literally going on a tangent once again, but I used to think that I was a very, like, I don't even know, like breasts, emotionally receptive person. Like I could like handle emotions from other people, but now I feel like I can't and I don't know why. Like can people cry? It freaks me out.
Stephanie: 36:57 I think, I think you're totally right and I think it's because like, you know, at the drop of a dime you could cry over your mom and you just don't even want to get into that with like, especially people that you don't know. I'm totally with you. I kind of like, if I see it coming, I kind of go the other way.
Kat: 37:13 Yep. Okay. That makes me feel better. And I'm not racist. Not that I'm like insensitive, you know, or not empathetic, but, and now I know, I kinda sorta how my, how my intuition feels. I guess. It's like if somebody comes crying to me because they're upset and it's unexpected, I'm like, wow, I wonder what my alter ego or whatever is thinking. Like I'm prying, it's unexpected. Like, I dunno the voice in the back of your head. So it's crazy.
Stephanie: 37:45 I think we am as well. You grow up, you grow up instantly when these things happen and you know, like when my friend passed away, that was on a Saturday and I go back to work on Monday and you know, something that's very important to somebody doesn't mean that much to me at the time because to me it's just a silly little work thing that really doesn't mean much. And I just remember thinking like, man, I probably should have stayed home because like every little thing is just ticking me off right now because like, I just watched somebody die. Like I just watched a mother wait for their child and a husband and a mom or husband and children like cry for their mom and yet we're worried about paperclips or you know, or something like that that it was like, oh my gosh, I can't, I got almost just go home because this is, I'm going to lose my mind.
Kat: 38:41 Oh my God, I love you. You're so right.
Stephanie: 38:44 I'm sure you experienced that too.
Kat: 38:47 It puts like grief and death really puts life into perspective. That is for sure. That's one I wouldn't say like good or bad, but that's one thing that I'm, I appreciate about the whole situation, but I'm curious if somebody came to you and they were like, Hey Stephanie, I'm really, really struggling with like my anxiety from losing my mom, what would you recommend to her to do?
Stephanie: 39:21 Well, I would 100% have them figure out if they could get some sort of therapy in their community and if it's not in their community you know, through an actual therapist, see if there's a support group at their local church or their local hospital. I checked out a couple of those too. Every little bit helps, but I definitely think professionals can really help you. But here's the deal. I think if you go when you're not ready, it's not gonna do anything for you. Do you know what I mean?
Kat: 39:57 Absolutely. And do you have to even like reaching out to people to share their story? They're like, oh, I'm not ready. I'm like, that's 100% fine, but you have to do, I've noticed a lot with grief. It's a lot of self reflection and it's scary and it, but it's like you need to really think about if you're ready for whatever you're about to embark on. Like sometimes you have to let yourself feel anxious, you know?
Stephanie: 40:23 Oh yeah, for sure. And like 100% do I wish. And this is what my therapist said. I'm a control freak in the sense that do I wish I would agree with differently? Yes. I wish I would have freaking cried at the visitation. I wish I would have cried more at the funeral. I wish I would've talked to her more about things and even if it made me cry in her Christ, so what? Like I wish I would've done things differently because I think it would've helped me later on. But as the therapist would tell me like there is no wrong way to grieve. It just is what it is. There's no right way. There's no wrong way. It's just how your mind and your body and your everything just copes with it. I mean it just is what it is. Definitely tell somebody if they were able to, to try to go get some help because I think whether it's medicine or it's just talking through something like you're not sometimes going to get the help you need unless it's with a professional.
Kat: 41:21 Yup. That's very true. I mean you've got to start somewhere but it's important to know like it's okay. Like if this support group isn't helping you in the way that you imagined, like that's okay. It's still good to have that community. Like it's still good to have those people in your life who can relate, but sometimes you need to go farther than that. And I think that's where a lot of people, they either get ashamed or they might not even realize too. I think a lot of people realize that they think it's helping and then like it might not be helping. So I'm like, I don't really know. I don't really do, if I have any advice for that facet other than like sometimes shit just kind of has to hit the fan that happens to everybody. So I'm like soulful that if that goes to you
Stephanie: 42:09 And you know, I've mentioned in that motherless daughter, daughter, what does it motherless daughter group?
Kat: 42:16 I think there's like 20 of them, so
Stephanie: 42:18 Yeah, but the one that I met you through I even shared in there, I was like, hey guys, like I just did a live video on mental health, please, if anybody's needing help, like I seriously encourage you to get some, it is truly life changing. And I had a lot of people comment and they would tell me like, yeah, they tried it and it was great for them. And then I had others tell me they tried it, but it wasn't for them. They did it like a month afterwards. Well, in my head I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I mentally would not have been ready for it at one month afterwards, you know? So I'm just hoping that people that tried it and it didn't work for them, that maybe they could try it a little bit later down the road in the grief process. Yeah,
Kat: 43:03 You have a very, a very good point. Indus. What breaks my heart. It's like people get help and I think they get help too soon. And like you said, like they're like, oh, help doesn't help me. But I'm like, you got help so soon because society gets in your head and makes you think that you should get help too soon because it's not okay to grieve. It literally comes back down to the freaking world that we live in. People.
Stephanie: 43:25 Yes. You know, that was with a friend of ours who lost a spouse. They had to go to counseling. Like, oh my gosh, I think that they had to go like two weeks afterwards just to be able to get like their medical benefit of like being able to stay home for a little while and that their therapists did not do much for them. And it's like, okay. So look at that. That was one experience at that person might think, Oh gee, that didn't do anything for me. But I mean, at two weeks out you're completely numb. Still. Like you're in shock. Like none of it just made sense at this point to you. It's not real in your head.
Kat: 44:03 Hell, that's like, some people don't even have funerals for two weeks. Jesus Christ.
Stephanie: 44:08 Right, right, exactly. So, yeah, I know, but I really would encourage it. I know that it might not be, I mean mine was available through my health benefits which I think is huge because it would be probably really expensive for others, but I think it's starting to become a little bit more available, have options
Kat: 44:32 And people just have to explore. I think they yes, either get frustrated or they just think that it's not out there. And I'm like, no, it's out there. Like help us out there. But you have to look for it and once you look for it and once you find that perfect person, you're like, oh my God, like where have you been my whole life, you know?
Stephanie: 44:52 Right. I said that to my husband. I'm like, you know what, like they're not a medical doctor per se. Like they're not going to like stitch up your heart after heart surgery or something, but they can, they are like, it's so important to me that they can change your life. I mean, they are like life changers if they are good at what they do. And that's just, that's just Austin to me. Like I would love to be like, Ooh, I just saved somebody's life today, you know? I don't know. I just think they're awesome.
Kat: 45:19 Yeah. It's things that people definitely should not take lightly, but I mean, you just gotta you just gotta appreciate people. Like, I know it sounds like crazy, but I'm like, people have to hear things 20,000 times and I'm a firm believer everybody deserves a second chance. Maybe not everybody deserves third chances, but just like help have that, that deserves a second chance. Everything in life you got. And like, trust me, it sucks. You're like, Shit. Like, I don't want to go through this again or to get, but I mean, if you have that attitude, nothing's ever gonna work. You know? That's sound like some people probably don't want to hear that. But I mean mindset is everything. And I want to, I'm going to do like a whole episode or get like a mindset expert here or something. But like in life, but especially in grief, I mean if you eventually, obviously you know you're going to be negative, but if your life is spent in such a negative state and such a negative attitude, like you're never going to be able to crawl out of that hole. You will be stuck in that rut forever.
Stephanie: 46:25 No, I mean, grief is such a terrible, terrible animal that, I mean if you get stuck, like you said in that hole and you cannot get out, I can truly see how it can consume your life. And I mean, it can ruin your life. I mean, I, I've seen it before when somebody, you know, loved one passed away and they never truly get out of it. No, they don't.
Kat: 46:47 I mean, people lose like, I mean, you just think about all the relationships that you lose when you grieve. But I mean, I've heard horror stories of like peeing people being so emotionally and mentally and just physically like your physical health deteriorates, your mental health. Like people lose their jobs and it's just like, but that's why society needs to talk about it. I know this is why the world is so, and I feel like I say this in every episode again, but it blows my mind and I think it's getting better now just as not trying to be liberal or bring anything into this. But I think just as the world becomes more progressive, like hopefully it will become more of a thing. But I'm like, Bro, death is a part of life. Like grief is a part of death, so why is it such a big deal?
Stephanie: 47:39 I know. I think society makes it that, like I said, you get your three days off even for a lot of places, even for a mother or father or child, you get your three days off and then it's like, all right, get back to work. You gotta go do your thing. And it's like, okay, well my world just shattered and you want me to come back to work and be normal?
Kat: 48:03 I had like talk to some people and I don't know who, I remember like my mom's best friend for instance, and this is like, once again, we're not talking about anxiety, but who cares? She was like, like when my mom passed, she told her boss, like, her boss was like, oh, well, like we would like to have you back on this day. She's like, no, I'm going to tell you when I'm coming back. I was like, you'd tell your boss that girl, but, and I don't know, I'm like, I should really look into like the laws behind this. But like, I really wonder if like companies like if you're not like, it's like a maternity leave or you know, whatever. I mean, I'm not saying no, give me three months off work, but like, you know, even having those days, like I even felt bad hell working on a part time job, like not being like, like being triggered too much and having to go home and like, my boss didn't even like that sometimes. And I'm like, there's gotta be some provision in here, just somewhere for people. Like
Stephanie: 49:02 You would think so. And I, you know, my company was good about it. I mean, I took like a week off and I stayed a week home with my mom while she was home. But I mean, if you're really going by like the bylaws of the company and Whatnot, a lot of times it says like three days, three to five days, depending on what it is that yeah, it's just, I feel like society is just kind of like, alright, well you have to pick up and you have to get and you have to move forward, which you do. But I wish that there was more more counseling available for just in general. I mean like funeral homes, just having an available or you know, something or your, I'm sure your churches do with pastors and whatnot. Or priests, but I don't know, just a little bit more readily available because unless you're going to help you.
Stephanie: 49:50 And that's a hard thing too. It's like you brought up something earlier, like unless you're gonna go out and help yourself, I mean you're just going to be, it can really consume your life and I hate that for people and that's why I try to be a voice out there for those that I know that are struggling with things. And I always try to reach out to them and I always try to tell them I'm there for them anytime they need anything. That's why it's almost like I'm on some of those group websites now, just as more of a, I'm here to help you more than I'm going to get anything out of it at this point because I know that I am at a good point in my life and I wouldn't have been unless I went and did what I did.
Kat: 50:29 Exactly. I very much appreciate it. You know, like you using your voice because that's so important and grief does something to your brain. I don't know what it does, but it's like, no, like don't share your story. Don't share your voice. Don't do this, this, and this. No one cares. And I'm like, fuck you grief. Like people do care.
Stephanie: 50:50 Well I think we all get wrapped up to that. We want to keep everything so close, you know, close to the chest about everything. Like, Ooh, I don't want to go talk about like how my mom died because that's very personal. Well, you know what, every time I get to share my story, it's just one more time that I'm opening up about it. So it's helping me. I mean it just is what it is
Kat: 51:11 And it helps other people. And I think once that was really, really, I think a game changer. Like for people it's like once they have that mindset shift around, yeah, it is personal and yet is your story. You don't have to share it all the time. You can pick and choose when you share it, you have control over that. Like you have control over some facet of grief. Like holy hell, that's amazing. You know? And people need to realize that sharing their story is going to help them and it's going to help other people.
Stephanie: 51:44 Well, and that's where I knew that I was helping people. Like I said, when I did that very first mental health video that the people were sharing their stories with me, I'm like, okay, they need to get this off their chest. Even if it happened 25 years ago, they still need to get it off their chest. So hopefully it helped them and you know, I would converse back and forth with them a little bit and I even had people tell me like, I'm going to go get some help because you've inspired me to go do that.
Kat: 52:09 Exactly. Okay. Well let me try to reel this back in. Is there anything else that you want to leave with the listeners?
Stephanie: 52:19 No. I mean anybody could have any time. They could reach out to me if they ever needed anything. I'm here, here to talk. You can, I've got an open a Facebook profile so you can find me on there. And no, just you know, keep up with what you got to do, do it for yourself when the time is right. You'll know if you need some help and I just encourage you to do it if you feel the need to,
Kat: 52:46 I could not have said it better myself. Thank you so much for being on the show. I, it was a great conversation.
Stephanie: 52:55 Yes. Thank you for having me.
Kat: 52:57 Hey friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Before you go, I have four favors to ask you. First, I wanted to let you know that I host a group for women where we share our day to day stories, challenges, and victories. If you want to come along for the ride, head to Facebook and search for the life after losing mom community. Second, if you don't mind leaving me a review and telling me how I've helped you in your grief journey, I would greatly appreciate it. Third, head to KatBonner.com/podcast to access previous episodes and subscribe for episodes in the future. Finally had to KatBonner.com to schedule a complimentary connection call with me. I'd love to know more about your grief journey. Always remember that despite losing our mothers, we have flourishing futures.
Voiceover: 53:49 This has been an OutsourceYourPodcast.com production.